如果你有10万，你会选择那一款

平常人

选择一块心爱的手表，特别如果是一块昂贵的手表，对普通的爱表人来说，是一个多重限制因素的最优化选择。因为经费是有限和紧张的，而茫茫表海，各具特色的表款确是层出不穷。我有一个爱表的朋友，也是我爱表的引路人，最近就陷入了类似的苦恼，或者说是快乐的苦恼中。他准备以10万左右（8万～15万）购入一块顶级品牌手表，然而先是被宝玑先生经典的外型所打动，又为PP5296等所吸引，进一步考虑更多的选择带来更多的费思量。51和我见着聊起此事，我觉得他的考虑也不是没有道理，但我才疏学浅无法给他中肯意见，于是写下来，既是想请有识之士能帮忙出出注意，更是想借此机会，对此类问题大家来探讨一下，以添见识。
前提：8万～15万，顶级品牌PP,VC,LANGE,宝玑（他个人不中意AP），我个人倒是觉得可以扩充GO,GP,JLC,CARTIER等的复杂贵金属款（他本人已有欧和葡萄牙人七日链，故暂不想再上IWC）
考虑因素：
1，  工艺，希望能拥有品牌的特色，不论是简单款还是复杂款，比如葡萄牙人七日链，就有啄木鸟上炼和长动力（这倒也是他去年买的时候告诉我的，我觉得也有道理），特色的工艺，功能是品牌立足的基础，特别是如果用10万银子的话，光买个壳实在觉得有点那个，但是好像这个价钱买上述4个牌子的复杂款好像不可能，所以我建议他考虑其他的复杂金表。
2，  外观，希望是经典的品牌特征，这里他特别欣赏宝玑先生的硬币壳宝玑字的感觉，我也觉得如果能有顶级品牌的经典外观，是很开心的一件事
3，  历史底蕴，希望能是大多数爱表人所共同认可的，体现该顶级品牌文化的一款代表作。我倒是觉得他的想法太理想化了，见仁见智吧
4，  最后，能保值增值。其实不可否认，10万的花费，我辈大多数人当然还是希望能拥有一块多年后能体现金钱价值的贵重表。君子爱财，不必遮掩。当然个人觉得增值不如现在去炒股票，不过20年，50年以后的事我说不来。
以上这些考虑因素，可以说我也是挺认同的，（可能也是因为他本人就是我爱表的引路人吧），他有欧，万国的飞行员和葡萄牙人，再准备上一块10万左右的顶级表款。这种历程可能也是我们初学者进阶的一般经历，所以，这里我想把它提出来，引各方朋友谈一谈自己的选择和理由，不是为了最终的一款或两款，而是借这个机会，以10万左右为例，学习交流下对于买表的一些体会和心得，希望能不吝赐教，谢谢。

yang999

我推荐PP，可以在315机芯的自动表中随便挑一块自己喜欢的样子，如果能找到5107，5115，5053这样的经典更好，如果不能，随便来一个吧。

yang999

买表也是还要缘分的，想要的往往难求。

Grisar

8万～15万

Never has he Patek, then Patek!

Consider: 5035 (15-16w), 5146 (15-17w), 5127 (12w), 5053 (13w), 5296 (12w)...A Patek is a Patek.

Consider: Lange 1 (14-15w), Richard Lange (14-15w), 1815 (6w), 1815 Auto (10w)...Lange is a good alternative to Patek.

GO, GP, JLC and Cartier are not in the same league as Patek and Lange...更不能保值增值。

sunboy

Grisar斑竹推荐的表款中，我中意Richard Lange，10万多的patek总归感觉没有Lange做得好

ypwangwei

PP简单款中的5127非常好, 在PP的官方网站上都把5127称为" PP的签名版", 这个盛赞很多热炒的款式(6000, 5115, 5296)都没有获得过!

"Patek Philippe's signature model. Created in 1932 as the result of an avant-garde philosophy of aesthetics that showcases sleek lines and subtle elegance, the collection expresses artistic ingenuity at its very finest. The endearing quality of the design reflects the relentless pursuit of perfection that has always been at the core of Patek Philippe's mission.

可惜这个网站里的很多朋友只欣赏将官表, 月相款, 5296...我几乎没有看到人提起过5127. 在国外5127是PP经典款里最受推崇的, 大家可以去看看TIMEZONE.

如果把全部简单款放在一起比较,领会到各款的区别, 那么5127一定是其中最美的!

[ 本帖最后由 ypwangwei 于 2007-5-9 19:28 编辑 ]

Grisar

Signature model is another name for entry model...

Since more than a decade 3919 (now 5119) has always been the MOST well-known Patek signature model.

Dave in Wales has repeatedly promoted his 5127 on the Timezone, since it is the ONLY Patek watch he owns...

[ 本帖最后由 Grisar 于 2007-5-9 23:27 编辑 ]

ypwangwei

原帖由 Grisar 于 2007-5-9 20:00 发表
Signature model is another name for entry model...

Since more than a decade 3919 (now 5119) has always been the MOST well-known Patek signature model.

Dave in Wales has repeatedly promoted hi ...

Anyway, i do feel 5127 subtly deliver the beauty of PP, which you could find through rest of the collection on 5110, Gondolo series and some othe pieces with art deco or modern classical style.  ( if you know the art history well, you know what i mean! )

You could go to Gaudi ( spanish architect)  or the Movie " Brazil" to enjoy the similar style. The movie is more matching. I watch it three times and i believe it's 5127, and it's the essence of PP.

Grisar

Well, if you have ever heard about Bauhaus style, I guess that is THE style of 5127.

By the way, when the film Brazil was made, 5127 was NOT even available on the market!

平常人

感谢各位的支持，现试着将上述选择归纳一下
PP：CALATRAVA：小三针5115，日历5296、5127（这两款确实欣赏者众多）、5053（停产）
      复杂款：年历5146、5035（好像也停产了）
复杂款中没有世界时，是否可以认为年历的档位低于世界时。同时AVR兄 提及PP年历是入门款，是否是指从年历以上才具有收藏价值，其他各位对此有何高见
LANGE：三针1815、RICHARD
            经典款LANGE1
从功能上说，
5115与1815近似，都是最基本的功能，那么选择他们的原因能否从经典外观、特色、文化等方面再指点一下。
日历表5296、5127也是一样，个人觉得功能简单决定了工艺上很难有特别，是否如此呢还是工艺另有说法，或选择的原因是从经典外观、特色、文化以及保值上考虑的，愿闻其详。
年历5146、5035与LANGE1近似，不知他们的选择是多的是什么理由
上述提及的工艺特色、经典外观、文化、保值等当然是相对而言的，世上本就难求十全十美之物，只是想如果那款在其中某一、二方面有值得特书之处，还请一齐分享。谢谢

过眼烟云

支持，本人就是入门pp买的5127.简洁经典，虽说可能不如复杂款那么可以升值太多，但保值没有问题。关健是顶级的感觉不一样。

Grisar

是否可以认为年历的档位低于世界时: same league, both belongs to small complications, I personally like world-timer better, cos annual calendar is a compromise (affordable version of perpetual calendar).

Grisar

收藏价值: it really depends, it depends on WHY do you buy watches?
If you regard them as investment tools, forget it! A lot other tools are much better.
If you appreciate their style and beauty, it really depends on your taste.
Simple watches and complications don't substitute each other.

I believe AVR refered to the potential of value increase when he mentioned 收藏价值.

Grisar

5115与1815近似，都是最基本的功能，那么选择他们的原因能否从经典外观、特色、文化等方面再指点一下。
The biggest difference:
5115 has a valuable Email (something like porcelain) dial while 1815 has "ONLY" a silver dial. Therefore 5115 has a better value appreciation potential according to some collectors.

外观:  depens on your tatste, you are the guy who buy and wear the watch.

文化 : one is traditional Swiss, the other Glashütte German...both excellent but different. If I could only own one...difficult question. I can only say that most collectors so far value the history of Patek well over ANY other brand available.

Grisar

日历表5296、5127也是一样，个人觉得功能简单决定了工艺上很难有特别，是否如此呢还是工艺另有说法，或选择的原因是从经典外观、特色、文化以及保值上考虑的，愿闻其详

Both are great simple watches. 5127 is equipped with cal. 315 while 5296 with newly developed cal. 324 with ceramic ball bearing system and some other revisions.

Actually, I believe the difference between 315 and 324 is marginal. Both are great automatic movements. I slightly prefer 324.

经典外观: I would say both are classic. 5127 is a more usual classic design, although some people call it boring. (Please note this is not my opinion, I love 5127.) 5296's design is based on a very old (1932) version of well-known Ref. 96. The original version can be found in the Patek museum in Geveve. Some people don't like 5296 and arguing that its dial too busy. (This is as well not my opinion, since I find it perfect and attractive! I love 5296.)

So it really depends on you...your taste, not mine!

保值: If you really enjoy the watch, I think it is enough. Patek has in general good second-hand value. As a hint, if you buy one of those two simple watches at 11-12w (List price HK 14w) , you can expect around 9w for resale after years. Inflation has been assumed ZERO!

Grisar

The very first Ref. 96, a museum piece.

Grisar

年历5146、5035与LANGE1近似，不知他们的选择是多的是什么理由

Different watches but similiar price.

Lange 1 for its finishing level and uniqueness of design. Lange 1 has brought Lange to the very top of the watch-making industry. An important industry reference watch.

5035 and 5146 are annal calendars from Patek. Also Patek's invention, but many regard them as a cheaper (affordable) version of perpetual calendar. Great watches with great price. I like annual calendar, they are good daily beater.

爱喝茶男人

呵呵，10万我也是推荐5296噢，哈哈，这次我拿了块5135

ypwangwei

原帖由 Grisar 于 2007-5-10 15:39 发表
Well, if you have ever heard about Bauhaus style, I guess that is THE style of 5127.

By the way, when the film Brazil was made, 5127 was NOT even available on the market!

Certainly i know what Bauhaus is. But i think 5127 does nothing with Bauhaus!!!
While Bauhaus pursues the style of simplicity, it is more focused on the a spirit of calm, cold, internally closed beauty. But 5127 is much richer, more elegant, and warmer. The look tends to be simple, but the spiritual inside is opposite.
I will describe 5127 as a modern version of Gaudism. Pretends to be simple, but prospers in the heart!!
Regarding the movie Brazil, i like to say it give a feel of 5127.  Doesn't matter which one is earlier or whether they are related!
The are just so similar in the core !!!

平常人

写这个帖子的初衷既是想替我朋友（我也想知道）的选择多些参考，更多的想法也是引来诸位表友能对心仪的表款加以点评，不论是工艺、特色、文化以及任何不寻常的特点，增添大伙的手表知识和乐趣。所以，谢谢大家，尤其是Grisar 真诚、详尽的介绍[s:120]。
看了不少的帖子，刚才有了一个念头，虽然说保值增值对于爱表族来说不是个很重要的话题，但是恰恰它可能是综合考量一款手表价值的好方法。因为，市场是客观的，人民的眼睛是雪亮的，特别是历尽多年的考验，众多行家的评价。保值增值与否，多寡更多的体现了一款手表在文化、特色、经典、受追捧等方面的综合价值。所以，如果把题目改为，一款你认为最能保值的10价位的顶级手表及理由（不论是您个人的倾向还是大多数人认可的优点），虽然有些铜臭，但可能更为有趣。诸位以为如何？欢迎赐教及探讨